Jul 26, 2008

26-jul-08 minutes of MN diehard / boglehead meeting

visit bogleheads.org for our global website. email directly at mndiehards@comcast.net if you want to be added to the mailing list for future meetings.

it was a full agenda... (maybe too full?) next meeting in early nov, some sat, 12:00, at bloomington major's.

attendees: 27. several new folks, several old.

highest boglehead quiz score = 16 (too many small/value tilters!).

yang and i discussed that we could convert this to a bubblehead group and try to figure out and profit from the next bubble... commodities, real estate, etc. but maybe not...
the 'are you a diehard / boglehead' quiz:


____ 1. In these trying times, do you think it's reasonable to make tactical allocation changes? (Y=0, N = 1)
____ 2. Is the best strategy to simply to hold a broadly diversified portfolio and stay the course? (Y=1, N =0)
____ 3. Critics argue that buy and holders are simply sticking their heads in the sand as risk rises in the marketplace. Do you agree? (Y=0, N=1)
____ 4. Do you manage risk by diversifying among different types of securities - including bonds - and then staying the course? (Y=1, N =0)
____ 5. Do you rebalance and make necessary adjustments based on our own personal situation; not on market forecasts? (Y=1, N =0)
____ 6. Do you overweight portfolio to take advantage of the so-called value and small-cap premiums? (Y=0, N=1)
____ 7. Do you hold a broad market index fund and stay the course? (Y=1, N =0)
____ 8. Do you actively trade ETFs? (Y=0, N=1)
____ 9. Do you invest in high-cost actively managed funds? (Y=0, N=1)
____ 10. Do you consider yourself a market timer? (Y=0, N=1)
____ 11. Do you save regularly? (Y=1, N =0)
____ 12. Do you avoid mistakes? (Y=1, N =0)
____ 13. Do you have an asset-allocation plan? (Y=1, N =0)
____ 14. Do you diversify with broad market index funds? (Y=1, N =0)
____ 15. Do you keep costs low (including taxes)? (Y=1, N =0)
____ 16. Do you strive for simplicity? (Y=1, N =0)
____ 17. Do you stay the course? (Y=1, N =0)
____ add up your total score here. check with descriptions below

17 = You ARE John Bogle!
13-16 = Give that man a Bogle Bobblehead! Charter member.
10-12 = Pretty Boglish! Stay the course!
6-9 = You've heard the word, but haven't quite walked the walk.
3-5 = Eek. Good luck with that!
0-2 = Unrepentant market timing stock trader!

agenda: 1) welcome & “formal” intro - your name & what you’ve done during this bear market 2) boglehead quiz (below) 2) break into 5 tables, 5 sessions (all session will be ~15 minutes each) 3) wrapup, picture, next meeting timing / location / format

==================== Session 1 ==================== Table 1: Boglehead basics: what is one? Brief history of bogleheads Table 2: AA: Sample AAs for different ages/risk tolerance Automatic Investing 401k/403b/other, Setting Goals, Books/websites, how people track, Filing/keep/shred Table 3: AA: interested in asset allocation of index funds in retirement. Table 4: AA: reviewing actual portfolios from people (bring 8 copies, % only) Table 5: AA: US / Int'l equity allocations

==================== Session 2 ==================== Table 1: ROTH conversions, benefits of Roth vs. Traditional. location of funds: I've been trying to find a rationale for placing funds in a ROTH. Table 2: ROTH 401(k) vs. Traditional 401(k) if you have the option Table 3: 401k: keep $ in company stock, w/draw as LT gain, not ord. Income? Table 4: PICK: non-vanguard funds: discuss the where & why of owning such funds. Risk factor of being diversified through different fund families, e.g. Fidelity, VG, others Table 5: PICK: Picking/rating a mutual fund to meet AA, Rating – Morningstar, others

==================== Session 3 ==================== Table 1: PICK: Workplace retirement plans and fund options, etc. Table 2: TAX: tax deferred account %? Roll-over to Roth (qualifications today, 2010 law changes), Preparing for roll-over (accumulate cash), Does anyone have Roth 401k offered today? Table 3: TAX: taxes: strategies to minimize taxes, future tax changes and respective changes in investment strategies if any, pay off mortgage sooner vs. invest in taxable (if smth left after tax-deferred)... Table 4: TAX: Retirement: Managing income streams and minimizing taxes (how to balance and maximize after tax income from pensions, SS, annuities, and pre /post tax) Table 5: Selling/switching a mutual fund. When/how?: Deciding, w/ losses or gains, Do people decide an exit strategy when they buy? selling: I'm thinking real hard about selling out of a fund I've owned for a long time. does anybody have strategies to minimize taxes when selling investments?

==================== Session 4 ==================== Table 1: WD Buckets of Money Theory (withdraw phase) and other withdrawal techniques Table 2: WD RMD Required Min. Distribution which will happens at 70.5. I'd like to be better prepared for taxes both Fed and MN taxes, fund location advantages, re-balancing strategies, reverse mortgages, etc. Table 3: BONDS: junk bonds: What (if any) percent of total portfolio to devote to ‘junk bond’ funds, and if so what are well-run, inexpensive funds or ETFs to use? Table 4: BONDS: bond funds: How to evaluate the risks/returns among bond funds. What data beyond 1,3,5,10 year returns need to be evaluated? Table 5: ETFs: When to use ETFs, why to use them, who the major providers are, etc.

==================== Session 5 ==================== Table 1: bear market correction: staying the course in turbulent markets. What do you do to tune out the noise and stay invested? What is the hardest part about the current state of the markets, tuning out the media, etc.... Table 2: commodities: What % of portfolio are commodities, what are well-run, inexpensive funds or ETFs to use? What the heck are speculators doing to drive prices up. We all "speculate". What happens to market when they go away? Is the housing bust similar? outlaw speculation? We seem to be in series of bubbles Table 3: rebalance; How often? (from every 5 years to almost continually) Table 4: Estate planning: Wills, Trusts, Power of Attorney, Living Will Table 5: VG: Managers Who Eat Their Own Cooking OR NOT! It appears Vanguard managers who run index funds don't believe in indexing.


Anonymous said...

"____ 3. Critics argue that buy and holders are simply sticking their heads in the sand as risk rises in the marketplace. Do you agree? (Y=0, N=1)"

Yes, B&H-ers stick there heads in the sand - but it's done by choice - because research has shown that taking head out of the sand with the intention to outfox the market is hazardous to one's wealth.

Great blog guys! Loved it.

- Sunny (DFW chapter)

MN diehard said...

hey, sunny... thanks for dropping by.

i certainly don't mind being accused of having sand in my ears.

see you on the board.

raul said...

This article is a boon to all retired people in the world. Let the world see this.

Thank u so much for this informative article. There are many definitions of retirements. However, the best that I have came across till date is — “Retirement is a time when you don’t work for money. It’s the time when money should start working for you.”

Retiredebtfreeandhappy - retirement plans, retirement planning calculator, retirement planning, early retirement planning, retirement savings, retirement investments